Author: Dave Ferguson

Estimating For Paint Lines (Part 2 of 2)

December 10, 2018 Dave Ferguson

As technology has improved over the years, paint lines have become more commonplace throughout job shops. The ability to estimate how much a part costs is now more complicated due to the batch process and automation of paint lines. This entry will show you a sample formula for estimating “time per part”. This is a pretty complicated formula but you can put it into an Excel spreadsheet and try out the numbers.

Variables

TTR400     Time to Reach 400f
Cure          Time Cure Time
PPS           Parts Per Set
LFPS         Linear Feet Per Set
CT             Cure Temperature
CSO          Conveyor Speed Override

Formula

(LFPS/PPS)/IF(CSO=0,(IF((TTR400 + CTA*(Cure Time))<11, 5, IF((TTR400 + CTA*(Cure Time)) < 15, 4.5,IF((TTR400 + CTA*(Cure Time)) < 20, 4, IF((TTR400 + CTA*(Cure Time)) < 25, 3.5,IF((TTR400 + CTA*(Cure Time)) < 30, 3, IF((TTR400 + CTA*(Cure Time)) < 35,2.5,IF((TTR400 + CTA*(Cure Time)) < 40, 2,IF((TTR400 + CTA*(Cure Time)) < 45, 1.5, 1))))))))),CSO)

Estimating For Paint Lines (Part 1 of 2)

December 4, 2018 Dave Ferguson

What is a paint line?

Paint lines comprise equipment that cleans, dips, sprays paint, and ovens to dry the parts. Paint lines are very capital-intensive and often take up hundreds to thousands of square feet of space. They can be both wet paint or powder coat systems.

Why do we need a formula for paint line estimating?

Paint lines are very costly and, therefore, you want to be able to make your money back from this large capital investment. Not only do you want to earn your money back but you want your pricing to be competitive in the market. Many job shops seem to now have their own paint lines instead of sending their manufactured parts to a painter. Suppliers who have done their own painting for years have developed formulas or techniques, which they use to estimate jobs. For accurate costing, job shops must now have formulas for the jobs requiring paint lines; this is especially important if a shop wants to be both profitable and competitive in the market.

Estimating has become more of a science than guesswork. Some goals of estimating are to have repeatable processes and consistent costs. Below, you will find specific variables that make up a formula for costing paint lines. Some of the variables include adjustments for special situations, like odd-sized parts or if the line has to go at different speeds.

Time To Reach XXX degrees

Cure Time

Parts Per Set

Linear Feet Per Set

Cure Temp

Conveyor Speed Override

The next post will cover the actual formula that will be used with these variables; this should help us determine accurate costing.

Costing Product Capacity Of A Facility and Demand Affects

December 22, 2015 Dave Ferguson

Do you wonder what your shop’s burden rates are for working 8-hour days but having only 4 hours of work to do? Do you charge your customer for all 8 hours? There are some companies that will charge for 8 hours of work even when there was only 4 hours of labor on a job. This gives an inflated cost to the product and may, thus, give it the appearance of not being profitable when, if fact, it was profitable. The unused time must be classified as idle time and its costs should not be attributed to a specific job cost or product family.

This unused time should be calculated and given to management in order to plan, schedule, and manage the company. Some situations where this may happen is when material is late, a machine broke down, etc. When this happens, management should be aware and may be able to change processes to make the shop more effective.

Job Quoting Key Aspects

October 29, 2015 Dave Ferguson
Here are some key aspects to quoting and estimating.
1. Material costs
This includes both raw material and purchased components like nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
2. Tooling costs
3. Welding fixture costs and other fixture costs
4. Burden rate of the machine(s) the part runs on
6. Insurance
7. Depreciation
8. Labor
9. Utilities
10. Other consumables
11. Taxes
12. Payment Terms
13. Complexity of the part and the tolerances to be held
14. Inspection Requirements
15. Documentation requirements
16. Other costs of quality
18. Engineering Costs
19. Installation Costs
20. Administrative staff salaries and commissions
I’m sure I’m missing a few…..

Punch Press Estimating and the First CNC Punch Press

July 10, 2015 Dave Ferguson

Punch press estimating is a very common way to put wholes in sheet metal parts. Punch presses have been around since 1955.  The Wiedemann Machine Company was established in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1916 and over the years developed and produced a variety of machines. Wiedemann unveiled the world’s first NC turret punch press at a machine tools show in Chicago in 1955.

CNC punch presses are very common and still outperform laser in many scenarios in speed.

Punch press formulas for estimating usually ask for number of hits, tools and thickness of material.   You can see a sample formula below which can be changed based on your machine capabilities.

((onehit*.0008*((thickness*2)+1))+(nonstand*2*.0008*((thickness*2)+1))+(perimeter/668*((thickness*2)+1))+(((length/4590)*2*tools)+tools*.05))

Laser Cutting Estimating

April 22, 2015 Dave Ferguson

Laser cutting sheet metal parts is very common in the industry.  Not too many years ago laser cutting was new and estimating the costs was new.  Now, laser cutting estimating has become much more accurate through software simulations.

The simplest way to estimate laser cutting time and material is using the actual laser programming software like Metacam by Metamation.   A flat DXF file can be loaded into the software and the software will accurately estimate the laser time based on a simulation  cutting the part.  The part can actually be nested giving you a more accurate time cutting the parts from a nested sheet.  Once the estimated time has been calculated you would enter that time into the cycle time of the nesting software to calculate your costs.  The Gas, Depreciation, Utilities would be included in your overhead rate of the machine which in turn gives you the cost to run the part.

There are other situations where you do not have a  good DXF file and you must estimate by estimating the number of inches, pierces, cut speed, etc.  The screen shot below shows where you would create an a formula and use the formula to enter values.  The formula would have to be customized for your specific machine and manufacturing process which in turn brings consistent estimates.

Lastly, a calculator can be created to assist you in calculating the number of linear inches of cutting as shown below.

There is a nice article here.

//www.thefabricator.com/article/plasmacutting/estimating-your-cutting-costs

Saw Operation Standards

April 6, 2015 Dave Ferguson

The standards for estimating saw operations includes both the actual sawing operation and the setup of the jig, clamps, etc.  The times below are in seconds.  These process times may change based on the machine and if its a manual process, etc.  In your software you should enter the different processes into the saw operation with the standards which you determine are correct for your business.   ERP Software for the manufacturing business should be able to calculate the cycle times once you enter your standards into the system.

Process Seconds
Brush Chips Small 7
Burr, Inch 12
C Clamp Small 10
C Clamp Large 20
Cutting Oil 2
Feed 3
Guard Remove 6
Manual Feed Stock 10
Oil Part 5
Start/Stop 2
Visegrip Wrench 3
Air Blast 5

The cycle time of cutting is more dynamic based on the material type and cut length.  There are also automated saws which you program in the different cut lengths required and the automated system sets the gauge in order to optimize the material usage based on the requirements.

In order to calculate the cycle time based on material you would use a formula as shown below

(Material Type Feed Rate) * Number Of Inches Of Cutting.

If the material cut speed was 30 inches a minute and you were cutting 60 inches, the total time would be

(1/(InchesPerMinutes))*(Cut Length)

(1/30)*60 which gives you 2 minutes of cycle time.

Engineering Standards For Estimating

March 30, 2015 Dave Ferguson

Engineering standards for estimating is critical in order to come up with a consistent way of quoting.   Standards are based on time and not dollars because shop rates are different based on each individual company.  Standards are different based on machines and skill which are relatively consistent.

Engineering standards shown are for the metalworking industry and can be adjusted based on your machines and skill level.  Software has improved greatly in the last few years with software from vendors such as Metamation Inc., Sigmanest  and others.

Sheet Metal parts take about 20-60 minutes to program or 3 minutes per 1 minutes of machine time.  CNC Lathe parts take about 20-60 minutes to program or 10 minutes per 1 minute of machining.  Machining Center takes 4-40 Hours or 30  minutes to program 1 minute of machining time.

Tool design for fixtures, drill jigs, welding jigs, etc has been approximated that the manufacturing time and cost will be 2 times greater.

You should create a spreadsheet for estimating that uses the standards shown or use an estimating software like QuoteIt! from MIE Solutions to enter the formulas which best match your requirements.

www.mie-solutions.com

March 26, 2015 Dave Ferguson

The estimating process is just that, its an estimate or an educated guess.   Companies many times will add to the beginning of a quote a process step called Engineering.  Engineering can mean many things including

• CNC Programming
• Design Work
• Creating Solid Models
• Creating Prototypes

During the estimating process it is key to include these costs into your quote.  Things to consider is this charge can be either amortized into the unit costs or as a separate charge.  The nice thing about amortizing the costs into the piece price is that a repeat job your profit will go up because this tasks has already been complete.   A separate charge has the advantage of lowering the price to the customer for future job orders which may give you a pricing advantage in the long run.

Hourly cost for these engineering tasks need to be taken into consideration based on the cost of the employee completing these tasks.

Lastly, a key consideration if you do lots of engineering work is becoming a partner which gives you a head up on your competitors.

Take a look at an ERP system that handles engineering tasks at

www.mie-solutions.com

Estimating Shearing (Sheet Metal Cutting)

January 2, 2013 Dave Ferguson

The basic definition of shearing is cutting metal into smaller pieces.  If we define shearing as cutting material then not only a shear can do this process but metal scissors, lasers, punch presses, etc can also do the same function.  The shearing that is discussed hear is a machine which cuts metal with a blade.  Below is an example of an Amada shear.

Shears come in different tonnages and tolerance capabilities.  The more tonnage on a shear the thicker the material can be sheared.    A shear has both a front and back gauge which lets you measure the length of your cut from either of the two sides of the shear.

Some options when estimating shear time includes setup.  Setup is the time it takes set the front or back gauge to the proper measurement and verifying it is good.  In order to get the most consistent estimates questions below should be answered during the setup

How Many Back Gauge Setups

How Many Front Gauge Setups

By answering the above questions a formula can be derived to give you a setup time that is answered simply versus having the information in an estimators head.  A time of 5 minutes per back gauge setup and 3 minutes per front gauge setup.  The estimator would just have to enter the quantity of cuts and how the cuts will be made to arrive at consistent setup times.

There are other setup factors to be aware of which is handling time including getting the material, stacking the material, etc.

Next post will go into more of these areas in some more depth.